Borna66
08-08-2012, 09:35 AM
09/06/2007Comparison of ISO/TS 16949 and QS-9000
QS-9000
ISO/TS 16949
Released in 1994
First released in 1999
22,500 Certifications
1724 Certifications
174 Registrars with multiple offices
48 Registrars
22 Accreditation Bodies
5 Regional Offices for Accreditation
IATF OEM Options for ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Compliance
• Encourage Upgrade
• Phase In Approach
• Mandate
Currently, the strategy is to encourage upgrade. The DaimlerChrysler Representative said it may become Mandated in 2 to 6 months. He mentioned this several times during the presentation
IATF Background
• Voting members – 13 includes OEMS and Industry and trade organizations
• IATF Oversight – ANFIA, IAOB, IATF- France, SMMT, and VDA-QMC
• IATF Working Groups – Teams working on projects made up of sector groups and technical experts
IATF View on ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Automotive Industry – Value added requirements
• Global Quality System Content
• Global Recognition Certificate
• Common Registration Requirement and oversight body for registrars
• Reduced number of registrars- one contract and certification committee centralized in one office
• Common Auditor qualification
Process Audit is key to the transition from QS-9000 to ISO/TS 16949:2002
Development Process Used for ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Aligned with ISO 9001:2000
• IATF Guidance – new supplement
• Auditor Qualification for training and exam
• Rules
• Checklist
• Customer Specific Documentation
ISO/TS 16949:2002 Benefits
• Reciprocal global recognition
• Global Automotive Quality System Content
• Global Sourcing Advantages
• Emphasis on process audit versus checklist
• Significant improvement in oversight/ control of certification bodies
• Improvement of marginal organizations
Differences in QS-9000 and ISO/TS 16949:2002 (IATF view)
Strengthened
• Product Realization integrations (i.e. Process with product in 7.3)
• Supplier Development (7.4)
• Organizational Performance Requirements (5.1.1 and 8.2.1.1)
They did not put these numbers next to the bullets, this is my interpretation of what they think. Especially, 5.1.1 and 8.2.1.1 hold more significance to them then to the casual reader.
Product Realization Integration - IAOB Slide
• Customer Oriented Process (0.2)
• Manufacturing Process design Requirements (7.3)
• Engineering Change Control (7.1.4)
Supplier Development
• Criteria for “goal of supplier development” 7.4.1.2
This was a hot topic as you may imagine. Some facts on supplier development- ISO 9001:2000, December 15, 2003 deadline is not applicable to ISO/TS 16949:2002
For some small suppliers it may be ok to waive requirements of supplier development. Organizations will have to petition the customer to waive.
Organization Performance Requirements
o Confirmation of the output of the Quality Management System (QMS)
Implementation and effectiveness (8.2.1.1)
Includes Suppliers (See 7.4.3.2)
The key to ISO/TS 16949:2002 is that organizations that do not have good metrics should not be registered. Come up with strong “result” criteria for the auditor to fill out to prove that the organization being recommended is indeed worthy of ISO/TS 16949:2002.
Facts About ISO/TS 16949:2002
• QS-9000 goes away 2006, and ISO 9000:1994 -Dec. 15, 2003
• Past Dec. 15, 2003, an organization needs to get QS-9000 audits and ISO 9001:2000 audits to maintain ISO standing
If you are going to implement QS with ISO 9001:2000, then why not go directly to ISO/TS 16949:2002? Imagine the conflicts between the ISO 1994 version and the ISO 2000 version.
• Includes Vehicle Assembly Centers (they were especially proud of this fact)
For all practical purposes, ISO/TS 16949:2002 deadline is Dec. 15, 2003
Auditing ISO/TS 16949:2002 – Key Approach Differences as Viewed by IATF
• Process Approach to Audit
o Customer Oriented Process (we got a ½ hour lecture on this). These processes start with customer requirements and then end with output. The input and output need to be checked against each other to see if the output satisfies the input. They want all the COPs identified in the organization. COPs are the Key Processes from the alignment chart found in the Omnex QOS methodology.
o They want the process to have a clear line of sight from the customer to the organization
• The Audit Plan should have key processes instead of a bunch of elements (this was mentioned several times)
o Needs to identify the key processes
• Performance
o Linked to common metrics for organization and supplier
(see previous slide)
• Oversight – Adherence to the “rules” and Common Global Process
• Throw away the checklist and use the organization’s procedure to do the audit
To do this, the level II needs to be carefully studied during document review
• Use the checklist to make sure you are thorough, but not as the definitive list with the standard.
Hint: During IAOB witness audits, be careful how you audit. May want to discuss things ahead of time with the IAOB.
Auditing Approach (cont’d)
• They stressed the problem of remote locations not being able to get certificates and which sites are production or manufacturing. They used the definition of manufacturing to describe what a “site” should be.
• Sites should be supplying Automotive to get ISO/TS 16949:2002 certificates
• Each of the OEMs will have links to their websites where the customer-specific documents can be obtained. They have yet to actually start working on them.
Audit Planning Changes (did not capture all- it is in “Rules”)
• Need the following for audit planning
Current rating of customer
Identify key processes (includes COPs)
List of internal audits
Customer-specific requirements
Identification of processes and their interaction (Process maps)
World Wide OEM Acceptance of ISO/TS 16949:2002
• BMW – compliance
• Daimler Chrysler – Optional
• Fiat – New Certification/Renewal
• Ford – Optional
• Nissan – Optional/Compliance
• PSA – Optional through 2003
• Renault – Optional through 2003
• Volkswagen – Optional
Japanese companies have agreed to reduce second party audits if the supplier is ISO/TS 16949:2002
Gaps found during Pilot Audits
• Control Plans (poor) and not followed
• Customer Specifics ignored
• Rules not followed
• Internal Auditor Training was poor
• Records not linked to procedure
• On the Job training not addressed
• Unreported Changes (PPAP)
• Management never audited
• Interface between site and remote location not followed
• PPAP does not meet requirements
• GRR performed by calibration technicians and not production operators
• Written findings did not have three elements – requirement, objective evidence and nature of NC (see Omnex class on this)
Need to Know the Following to Audit
• Standard
• Guidance to ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Rules
• Checklist – used later. Not used on its own
• Customer Specific Requirements as appropriate
Why Upgrade? IATF Perspective
• Based on ISO 9001:2000
• Better control of auditing process
• Reduced audit variation
• Better value of certification
Next Steps (IATF slide)
• What happens to QS-9000?
o No plans to revise based on ISO 9001:2000
Including sanctioned interpretation and customer specifics
o The 3rd edition manual based on ISO 9001:1994 will remain in effect until Dec. 14, 2006
o IASG Sanctioned interpretations will be released addressing this issue of certification after Dec. 15, 2003
• What happens to QS-9000 PPAP and reference manuals?
o Latest editions continue in effect
• ISO/TS 16949:2002 certifications includes compliance to ISO 9001:2000
o No separate certificate to ISO 9001:2000 is needed
This is a business decision of the organization
• D-C,Ford, and GM will include QS-9000 PPAP and reference manuals in customer specifics for ISO/TS 16949:2002
What happens after Dec 15, 2003? (IATF slide)
• ISO 9001:1994 will no longer be a certifiable standard
• QS-9000 will become a stand-alone certificate
If you seek ISO 9001:2000 registration, you must get a separate certification.
• ISO/TS 16949:1999 will end
FAQ’s
• Ford – Using STA site engineers – their first question is, “Do you have QS or TS?” Doing it because 3rd party is not effective.
• If the registrar is not on the IAOB list, then an agreement with someone on the list does not work.
• GM requires that internal auditor be trained to ISO 10011. (Note: This means a regular RAB-type class)
• Registrar can do 5 audits to TS before doing witness audits
• Registrar cannot give advice. You cannot audit if you give advice during the audit.
• COP is required in 4.1 a,b. Process approach will be trained into auditors.
• Ford and DiamlerChrysler are working on TE supplement. Something will come out before 2006.
• Representatives from Korea and Japan came for the first meeting. JAMA continued. They could not participate because they are not an OEM. There will be an IAOB in Asia.
• Customer-specific requirements will come out by end of June, 2002.
• Can get relief for mom and pop shops or for low volume suppliers from ISO/TS. This also goes for single source suppliers.
• You can do a split scope audit using ISO/TS and ISO
• ISO 17025 is not mandated by TS for internal labs
• Need 7.6.1 for process characteristics. (Auditors and implementers please note)
Interpreted by
Chad Kymal
QS-9000
ISO/TS 16949
Released in 1994
First released in 1999
22,500 Certifications
1724 Certifications
174 Registrars with multiple offices
48 Registrars
22 Accreditation Bodies
5 Regional Offices for Accreditation
IATF OEM Options for ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Compliance
• Encourage Upgrade
• Phase In Approach
• Mandate
Currently, the strategy is to encourage upgrade. The DaimlerChrysler Representative said it may become Mandated in 2 to 6 months. He mentioned this several times during the presentation
IATF Background
• Voting members – 13 includes OEMS and Industry and trade organizations
• IATF Oversight – ANFIA, IAOB, IATF- France, SMMT, and VDA-QMC
• IATF Working Groups – Teams working on projects made up of sector groups and technical experts
IATF View on ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Automotive Industry – Value added requirements
• Global Quality System Content
• Global Recognition Certificate
• Common Registration Requirement and oversight body for registrars
• Reduced number of registrars- one contract and certification committee centralized in one office
• Common Auditor qualification
Process Audit is key to the transition from QS-9000 to ISO/TS 16949:2002
Development Process Used for ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Aligned with ISO 9001:2000
• IATF Guidance – new supplement
• Auditor Qualification for training and exam
• Rules
• Checklist
• Customer Specific Documentation
ISO/TS 16949:2002 Benefits
• Reciprocal global recognition
• Global Automotive Quality System Content
• Global Sourcing Advantages
• Emphasis on process audit versus checklist
• Significant improvement in oversight/ control of certification bodies
• Improvement of marginal organizations
Differences in QS-9000 and ISO/TS 16949:2002 (IATF view)
Strengthened
• Product Realization integrations (i.e. Process with product in 7.3)
• Supplier Development (7.4)
• Organizational Performance Requirements (5.1.1 and 8.2.1.1)
They did not put these numbers next to the bullets, this is my interpretation of what they think. Especially, 5.1.1 and 8.2.1.1 hold more significance to them then to the casual reader.
Product Realization Integration - IAOB Slide
• Customer Oriented Process (0.2)
• Manufacturing Process design Requirements (7.3)
• Engineering Change Control (7.1.4)
Supplier Development
• Criteria for “goal of supplier development” 7.4.1.2
This was a hot topic as you may imagine. Some facts on supplier development- ISO 9001:2000, December 15, 2003 deadline is not applicable to ISO/TS 16949:2002
For some small suppliers it may be ok to waive requirements of supplier development. Organizations will have to petition the customer to waive.
Organization Performance Requirements
o Confirmation of the output of the Quality Management System (QMS)
Implementation and effectiveness (8.2.1.1)
Includes Suppliers (See 7.4.3.2)
The key to ISO/TS 16949:2002 is that organizations that do not have good metrics should not be registered. Come up with strong “result” criteria for the auditor to fill out to prove that the organization being recommended is indeed worthy of ISO/TS 16949:2002.
Facts About ISO/TS 16949:2002
• QS-9000 goes away 2006, and ISO 9000:1994 -Dec. 15, 2003
• Past Dec. 15, 2003, an organization needs to get QS-9000 audits and ISO 9001:2000 audits to maintain ISO standing
If you are going to implement QS with ISO 9001:2000, then why not go directly to ISO/TS 16949:2002? Imagine the conflicts between the ISO 1994 version and the ISO 2000 version.
• Includes Vehicle Assembly Centers (they were especially proud of this fact)
For all practical purposes, ISO/TS 16949:2002 deadline is Dec. 15, 2003
Auditing ISO/TS 16949:2002 – Key Approach Differences as Viewed by IATF
• Process Approach to Audit
o Customer Oriented Process (we got a ½ hour lecture on this). These processes start with customer requirements and then end with output. The input and output need to be checked against each other to see if the output satisfies the input. They want all the COPs identified in the organization. COPs are the Key Processes from the alignment chart found in the Omnex QOS methodology.
o They want the process to have a clear line of sight from the customer to the organization
• The Audit Plan should have key processes instead of a bunch of elements (this was mentioned several times)
o Needs to identify the key processes
• Performance
o Linked to common metrics for organization and supplier
(see previous slide)
• Oversight – Adherence to the “rules” and Common Global Process
• Throw away the checklist and use the organization’s procedure to do the audit
To do this, the level II needs to be carefully studied during document review
• Use the checklist to make sure you are thorough, but not as the definitive list with the standard.
Hint: During IAOB witness audits, be careful how you audit. May want to discuss things ahead of time with the IAOB.
Auditing Approach (cont’d)
• They stressed the problem of remote locations not being able to get certificates and which sites are production or manufacturing. They used the definition of manufacturing to describe what a “site” should be.
• Sites should be supplying Automotive to get ISO/TS 16949:2002 certificates
• Each of the OEMs will have links to their websites where the customer-specific documents can be obtained. They have yet to actually start working on them.
Audit Planning Changes (did not capture all- it is in “Rules”)
• Need the following for audit planning
Current rating of customer
Identify key processes (includes COPs)
List of internal audits
Customer-specific requirements
Identification of processes and their interaction (Process maps)
World Wide OEM Acceptance of ISO/TS 16949:2002
• BMW – compliance
• Daimler Chrysler – Optional
• Fiat – New Certification/Renewal
• Ford – Optional
• Nissan – Optional/Compliance
• PSA – Optional through 2003
• Renault – Optional through 2003
• Volkswagen – Optional
Japanese companies have agreed to reduce second party audits if the supplier is ISO/TS 16949:2002
Gaps found during Pilot Audits
• Control Plans (poor) and not followed
• Customer Specifics ignored
• Rules not followed
• Internal Auditor Training was poor
• Records not linked to procedure
• On the Job training not addressed
• Unreported Changes (PPAP)
• Management never audited
• Interface between site and remote location not followed
• PPAP does not meet requirements
• GRR performed by calibration technicians and not production operators
• Written findings did not have three elements – requirement, objective evidence and nature of NC (see Omnex class on this)
Need to Know the Following to Audit
• Standard
• Guidance to ISO/TS 16949:2002
• Rules
• Checklist – used later. Not used on its own
• Customer Specific Requirements as appropriate
Why Upgrade? IATF Perspective
• Based on ISO 9001:2000
• Better control of auditing process
• Reduced audit variation
• Better value of certification
Next Steps (IATF slide)
• What happens to QS-9000?
o No plans to revise based on ISO 9001:2000
Including sanctioned interpretation and customer specifics
o The 3rd edition manual based on ISO 9001:1994 will remain in effect until Dec. 14, 2006
o IASG Sanctioned interpretations will be released addressing this issue of certification after Dec. 15, 2003
• What happens to QS-9000 PPAP and reference manuals?
o Latest editions continue in effect
• ISO/TS 16949:2002 certifications includes compliance to ISO 9001:2000
o No separate certificate to ISO 9001:2000 is needed
This is a business decision of the organization
• D-C,Ford, and GM will include QS-9000 PPAP and reference manuals in customer specifics for ISO/TS 16949:2002
What happens after Dec 15, 2003? (IATF slide)
• ISO 9001:1994 will no longer be a certifiable standard
• QS-9000 will become a stand-alone certificate
If you seek ISO 9001:2000 registration, you must get a separate certification.
• ISO/TS 16949:1999 will end
FAQ’s
• Ford – Using STA site engineers – their first question is, “Do you have QS or TS?” Doing it because 3rd party is not effective.
• If the registrar is not on the IAOB list, then an agreement with someone on the list does not work.
• GM requires that internal auditor be trained to ISO 10011. (Note: This means a regular RAB-type class)
• Registrar can do 5 audits to TS before doing witness audits
• Registrar cannot give advice. You cannot audit if you give advice during the audit.
• COP is required in 4.1 a,b. Process approach will be trained into auditors.
• Ford and DiamlerChrysler are working on TE supplement. Something will come out before 2006.
• Representatives from Korea and Japan came for the first meeting. JAMA continued. They could not participate because they are not an OEM. There will be an IAOB in Asia.
• Customer-specific requirements will come out by end of June, 2002.
• Can get relief for mom and pop shops or for low volume suppliers from ISO/TS. This also goes for single source suppliers.
• You can do a split scope audit using ISO/TS and ISO
• ISO 17025 is not mandated by TS for internal labs
• Need 7.6.1 for process characteristics. (Auditors and implementers please note)
Interpreted by
Chad Kymal